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MacOSX-TeX Digest #448 - Tuesday, October 8, 2002
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Troy Goodson"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Juan Manuel Palacios"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Jon Guyer"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Juan Manuel Palacios"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Tom Kiffe"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Jon Guyer"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Bruno Voisin"
Re: [OS X TeX] itexmac on jaguar (OS 10.2)
by "J=E9r=F4me Laurens"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Gerben Wierda"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Gerben Wierda"
RE: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
by "Maarten Sneep"
Re: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
by "Emilio Faro"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Troy Goodson"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "William Adams"
Ruler in TexShop
by "Lawrence Armstrong"
Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
by "Gerben Wierda"
Re: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
by "Emilio Faro"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Troy Goodson"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:08:32 -0700
On Friday, October 4, 2002, at 12:25 PM, Aaron D. Lewis wrote:
> In my case, I had renamed a folder from 'i-Installer' to 'i-Installer
> (tetex/gs)', I believe in Troy's case, the problem is with his
> 'installer:updaters' folder.
>
> In either case, apparently one of the sub-programs in the install
> script
> can't parse the path properly (I bet it didn't like my "/"), and they
> fail...
>
Aaron,
I bet you're right about the bug, I should go back and try to verify,
myself.
As a side note, in OS X, if you name a folder "i-Installer (tetex/gs)"
using Finder, Unix applications will instead see "i-Installer
(textex:gs)". It does this because ":" is the traditional Macintosh
path delimiter while "/" is the traditional Unix path delimiter. See
also
, Wilfredo Sanchez's paper to USENIX 2000,
which I've quoted below:
> Another obvious problem is the different path separators between HFS+
> (colon, ':') and UFS (slash, '/'). This also means that HFS+ file
> names may contain the slash character and not colons, while the
> opposite is true for UFS file names. This was easy to address, though
> it involves transforming strings back and forth. The HFS+
> implementation in the kernel's VFS layer converts colon to slash and
> vice versa when reading from and writing to the on-disk format. So on
> disk, the separator is a colon, but at the VFS layer (and therefore
> anything above it and the kernel, such as libc) it's a slash. However,
> the traditional Mac OS toolkits expect colons, so above the BSD layer,
> the core Carbon toolkit does yet another translation. The result is
> that Carbon applications see colons, and everyone else sees slashes.
> This can create a user-visible schizophrenia in the rare cases of file
> names containing colon characters, which appear to Carbon applications
> as slash characters, but to BSD programs and Cocoa applications as
> colons.
Not to start a flame war, but I've always been a little frustrated by
this decision (the part about Cocoa apps seeing colons) because it
means that filenames you see via Finder (which is Carbon) will be
different than filenames you see in Cocoa applications :(
Troy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Juan Manuel Palacios"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:03:38 -0400
On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 08:08 PM, Troy Goodson wrote:
>
> Not to start a flame war, but I've always been a little frustrated by
> this decision (the part about Cocoa apps seeing colons) because it
> means that filenames you see via Finder (which is Carbon) will be
> different than filenames you see in Cocoa applications :(
>
A bit off topic but worth clarifying.The Finder used in Mac OS X is
a Cocoa application my friend, not Carbon. Take a closer look: not
runnable in Mac OS 9, presented as a "browsable" package, localization
support and the final test:
[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% pwd
/Applications/Acrobat Reader 5.0
[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% file Acrobat\ Reader\ 5.0
Acrobat Reader 5.0: CFM binary
[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]%
Carbon applications are just classic CFM binaries with minor
modifications to the source code, whereas:
[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% cd /System/Library/CoreServices/
[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]% ls -l Finder.app/
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 7 root wheel 264 Dec 8 2001 Contents/
[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]%
First we can see that what we see through the Finder as the
"application" is no more than a package, or a directory under Terminal's
eyes, which contains a binary inside:
[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]% cd Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% ls -l
total 2.3M
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2.3M Aug 21 00:34 Finder*
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% file Finder
Finder: Mach-O executable ppc
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]%
See the difference between a Carbon and a Cocoa application?
Another example:
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% cd /Applications/Mail.app/Contents/MacOS/
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% ls -l
total 560k
-rwxr-sr-x 1 root mail 556k Aug 21 00:32 Mail*
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% file Mail
Mail: setgid Mach-O executable ppc
[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]%
For some reason the mail application has the "set" bit on at the
group level, but you get the idea from the file command output.
Something funny, we just can't deny that we learn something new every
single day, as I just found out that mail has the "set" bit on. I wonder
why...!
Juan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Jon Guyer"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:49:08 -0400
At 10:03 PM -0400 10/7/02, Juan Manuel Palacios wrote:
> A bit off topic but worth clarifying.The Finder used in Mac
>OS X is a Cocoa application my friend, not Carbon.
Feel free to continue digging your hole, my friend, but I recommend
you stop before you get any deeper.
>Take a closer
>look: not runnable in Mac OS 9, presented as a "browsable" package,
>localization support and the final test:
Right, which means that it's a Mach-O package. In no way does that
imply that it's Cocoa (nor does it imply that it's Carbon). As far as
I know, Cocoa must be a Mach-O package. Carbon can be either a CFM
binary or a Mach-O binary. Whether a Carbon app is package or single
binary is a separate issue, still.
--
Jonathan E. Guyer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Juan Manuel Palacios"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:10:35 -0400
You clearly know more about this than I do (I wasn't trying to be
patronizing, sorry if I sounded like it!). Could you clarify further for
all those interested and confused (partly due to my message)?
On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 10:49 PM, Jon Guyer wrote:
>
> Right, which means that it's a Mach-O package. In no way does that
> imply that it's Cocoa (nor does it imply that it's Carbon). As far as I
> know, Cocoa must be a Mach-O package. Carbon can be either a CFM binary
> or a Mach-O binary. Whether a Carbon app is package or single binary is
> a separate issue, still.
Cocoa apps and traditional UNIX apps are all Mach-0 executable
since they are compile against the kernel (Mach), so how can a Carbon
app be sometimes recognized as Mach-0 and sometimes as CFM? All Carbon
apps I've seen are CFM binaries. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm
nut curious...
> Feel free to continue digging your hole, my friend, but I recommend you
> stop before you get any deeper.
A funny quote from a funny friend: "The first rule about holes: if
you are in one... STOP DIGGING!"
> Jonathan E. Guyer
>
Thanks fot the clarifications Jonathan. Regards,...
Juan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Tom Kiffe"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:51:33 -0500
On Monday, October 7, 2002, Juan Manuel Palacios:
>
> A bit off topic but worth clarifying.The Finder used in Mac OS X is a =
Cocoa application my friend, not Carbon. Take a closer look: not runnable =
in Mac OS 9, presented as a "browsable" package, localization support and =
the final test:
>
>[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% pwd
>/Applications/Acrobat Reader 5.0
>[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% file Acrobat\ Reader\ 5.0
>Acrobat Reader 5.0: CFM binary
>[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]%
>
> Carbon applications are just classic CFM binaries with minor =
modifications to the source code, whereas:
>
>[juan@PowerBook: Acrobat Reader 5.0]% cd /System/Library/CoreServices/
>[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]% ls -l Finder.app/
>total 0
>drwxr-xr-x 7 root wheel 264 Dec 8 2001 Contents/
>[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]%
>
> First we can see that what we see through the Finder as the =
"application" is no more than a package, or a directory under Terminal's =
eyes, which contains a binary inside:
>
>[juan@PowerBook: CoreServices]% cd Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/
>[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% ls -l
>total 2.3M
>-rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2.3M Aug 21 00:34 Finder*
>[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]% file Finder
>Finder: Mach-O executable ppc
>[juan@PowerBook: MacOS]%
>
> See the difference between a Carbon and a Cocoa application? Another =
example:
>
[snip]
According to Apple's Web Site the Finder, up to June 2002 at least, is a =
Carbon application. A Carbon application can be either CFM or Mach-O =
executable ppc
and it can be either a bundled package or a single binary.
Tom
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Jon Guyer"
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:52:25 -0400
At 11:10 PM -0400 10/7/02, Juan Manuel Palacios wrote:
> Cocoa apps and traditional UNIX apps are all Mach-0
>executable since they are compile against the kernel (Mach), so how
>can a Carbon app be sometimes recognized as Mach-0 and sometimes as
>CFM?
It depends on how they were linked. Carbon applications are
frequently ports from Classic, which uses Code Fragment Manager
linking. Barring any particular need, retaining CFM linking is the
path of least resistance in this case, so that's what you usually
see. This is particularly true because until relatively recently the
only way to generate Mach-O Carbon apps was with Project Builder,
which cannot produce CFM apps. In contrast, most Classic apps were
built with CodeWarrior, which could not produce CFM until recent
versions.
When a Carbon app has particular want or need of access to the Unix
subsystem, then Mach-O linking is preferable, despite the added
difficulties. The Finder falls into this category because it works at
the file system level and must ensure tight integration between
Finder views and command line views. The project I'm working on,
Alpha, also falls into this category, because it is driven by Tcl
scripts and we wanted to be able to exploit the fact that Apple now
ships Tcl as part of the system.
There are also performance benefits to Mach-O linking, but it's not
for the faint of heart.
--
Jonathan E. Guyer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Bruno Voisin"
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:04:01 +0200
About ":" versus "/" as path separator: it is all the more unfortunate
as "/" is the traditional separator for dates in French, and maybe in
other languages, of the form dd/mm/yyyy (today =3D 08/10/2002). I have a
lot of stored correspondance on my disk, dating back to my pre-OS X
days, made of files with names recipient-dd/mm/yyyy.tex. With some
applications I can still work with these files, with others I have to
rename them. I have also noticed that some OS X applications don't allow
the use of either ":" or "/" (one of the two, I don't remember which
one) in the Save window, these are converted to "-" as you type them.
I have also failed to burn CDs with my mail files (from Eudora, Pine,
Netscape, Mail.app) -- the failure in the form of a cryptic error
message (error -6 or something like this) at the end of the burning
process (which took about one hour, speed X 2) -- and I suspect the
failure was due to such file name problems.
Bruno Voisin
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] itexmac on jaguar (OS 10.2)
From: "J=E9r=F4me Laurens"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:03:13 +0200
Le lundi, 7 oct 2002, =E0 14:17 Europe/Zurich, kp gores a =E9crit :
> Sorry, i missed the postings on how to get iTeXMac to run under =
Jaguar.
> The error message i get is:
>
> /usr/share/init/tcsh/login: No such file or directory.
>
> and the solution to fix this is probably very easy...Texshop runs ok.
>
> Would someone please mail me the fix?
> Thanks in advance
> kp
>
enter in the terminal
ln -s /etc/csh.login /usr/share/init/tcsh/login
this is a temporary solution, and a jaguar iTeXMac should appear soon=
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Gerben Wierda"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:44:37 +0200
On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 02:08 Europe/Amsterdam, Troy Goodson wrote:
>> yet another translation. The result is that Carbon applications see
>> colons, and everyone else sees slashes. This can create a
>> user-visible schizophrenia in the rare cases of file names containing
>> colon characters, which appear to Carbon applications as slash
>> characters, but to BSD programs and Cocoa applications as colons.
>
> Not to start a flame war, but I've always been a little frustrated by
> this decision (the part about Cocoa apps seeing colons) because it
> means that filenames you see via Finder (which is Carbon) will be
> different than filenames you see in Cocoa applications :(
It is not even true as I discovered writing a particular workaround for
i-Installer v2. When you have an Open Panel in a pure Cocoa App and you
type a name with slashes in it, it is returned to the app with colons,
not slashes.
G
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Gerben Wierda"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:48:23 +0200
On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 08:04 Europe/Amsterdam, Bruno Voisin wrote:
> About ":" versus "/" as path separator: it is all the more unfortunate
> as "/" is the traditional separator for dates in French, and maybe in
> other languages, of the form dd/mm/yyyy (today =3D 08/10/2002). I have a =
> lot of stored correspondance on my disk, dating back to my pre-OS X
> days, made of files with names recipient-dd/mm/yyyy.tex. With some
> applications I can still work with these files, with others I have to
> rename them. I have also noticed that some OS X applications don't
> allow the use of either ":" or "/" (one of the two, I don't remember
> which one) in the Save window, these are converted to "-" as you type
> them.
I have been using unix a lot and have the same storage. The slashes
become directory separators, but there is nothing nasty about that.
Though to let that behave logically I use yyyy/mm as year-month.
yyyy/mm/dd-recipient.tex
and yyy and mm are directories. Works just as well.
G
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
From: "Maarten Sneep"
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:09:06 +0200 (CEST)
Hi,
Have a look on CTAN in tex-archive/biblio/bibtex/utils. Depending on how
accurate and consequent your formatting is (the formatting of your =
bibitems),
you may be able to find a tool there.
Maarten
On 07-Oct-02 Donal B. Day wrote:
> I have failed to maintain a bib file, rather creating a bibliography for
> my papers by cutting, pasting. and adding bibitems. Consequently I have
> lots of bibitems but no comprehensive bib file. It has become =
burdensome.
>
> Has any created a script/tool that can convert a list of bibitems into a =
> bib file?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
From: "Emilio Faro"
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:47:02 +0200
"Donal B. Day" wrote:
> Has any created a script/tool that can convert a list of bibitems into a
> bib file?
You pose a difficult question because the \bibitem entries in a .bbl file
are not properly marked for automatically extracting the information. The
only reliable .bbl --> .bib converter I know of is a human retyping the
entries.
Nevertheless, some amount of work may be saved if the entries in your .bbl
file have some degree of uniformity, such as all being articles, or
books..., or have been typed following a uniform scheme (something =
unlikely
if they have been obtained from many different sources by cutting and
pasting...). Sometimes it is possible to manually do a minimum of markup =
so
that the information we want may be extracted by a database program.
Then it would be a piece of cake to put the information in BibTeX format.
Emilio Faro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Troy Goodson"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:03:19 -0700
On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 12:44 AM, Gerben Wierda wrote:
> On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 02:08 Europe/Amsterdam, Troy Goodson wrote:
>
>>> yet another translation. The result is that Carbon applications see
>>> colons, and everyone else sees slashes. This can create a
>>> user-visible schizophrenia in the rare cases of file names
>>> containing colon characters, which appear to Carbon applications as
>>> slash characters, but to BSD programs and Cocoa applications as
>>> colons.
>>
>> Not to start a flame war, but I've always been a little frustrated by
>> this decision (the part about Cocoa apps seeing colons) because it
>> means that filenames you see via Finder (which is Carbon) will be
>> different than filenames you see in Cocoa applications :(
>
> It is not even true as I discovered writing a particular workaround
> for i-Installer v2. When you have an Open Panel in a pure Cocoa App
> and you type a name with slashes in it, it is returned to the app with
> colons, not slashes.
>
> G
But isn't that consistent? Cocoa apps see "/" as the delimiter, so if a
user wants a file to have a "/" in the filename, the Cocoa application
must translate this to ":" (Of course, the user who knows that Cocoa
apps see "/" as the delimiter might think they should type a ":" to get
a "/" in a filename, but I guess these users are too smart for their
own good :)
To clarify, in the paragraph above, when one speaks of "presenting a
file to the user" they are talking about a file that is already in the
filesystem and that file is being displayed for the user by a Carbon or
Cocoa application.
You're talking about the process of naming a file. Personally, I
appreciate the functionality you've mentioned. I expect "/" to be a
valid character in a filename and, likewise, ";" to be invalid. When
an application asks me for a filename, I don't expect to be able to
enter a path. I expect to navigate the path and then type the
filename. This will, I can imagine, lead to confusion if your
filesystem is UFS instead of HFS+. I can come up with some ideas for
coping with this, but I certainly haven't thought about it as much as I
hope the people at Apple have.
But this is all off-topic, so I'll try and keep quiet about it from now
on :)
Troy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "William Adams"
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:16:17 -0400
/ is a traditional date / month / year separator here in the US, but a
dash fills in recognizably well.
However, the : is the normal time separator, and nothing else is readily
recognized for that, so the traditional Mac OS way of doing things (as
is often the case) bass akwards and contrary to nice inter-working w/
other systems.
The ISO has a couple of standards for representing date / time, and
while most can be made to work readily w/ Unix, either as a file or path
name, the Mac convention of colon for folder separator just doesn't gibe.
The Finder is a Mach-O app 'cause Apple doesn't want it run in Mac OS
<=3D9, it needs the performance boost and
(most importantly) it has to be able to function if one installs to a
non-resource fork filesystem, i.e., UFS.
William
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Ruler in TexShop
From: "Lawrence Armstrong"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:20:51 +0200
Hi,
I would like to know if anyone has succeeded in modifying the initial
ruler in TexShop... It appears that is has a given number and positions
of Tab Stops (you can see when doing command-R) that don't cover the all
line. I would like to set once for all a distribution of those Tab Stops
without having to set them at each new document (it doen't work when
changing the ruler and quitting)... It must be somewhere in some *.plist
files but I can't find where...
Has anyone deal with this problem ?
Thanks,
Lawrence
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] i-Installer & Jaguar (10.2) Trivial Fix
From: "Gerben Wierda"
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 19:32:02 +0200
On Tuesday, Oct 8, 2002, at 17:03 Europe/Amsterdam, Troy Goodson wrote:
> You're talking about the process of naming a file. Personally, I
> appreciate the functionality you've mentioned. I expect "/" to be a
> valid character in a filename and, likewise, ";" to be invalid. When
> an application asks me for a filename, I don't expect to be able to
> enter a path. I expect to navigate the path and then type the
> filename.
I personally (and many ex-NeXTers with me) ament the loss of the
following functionality
Having arrived at a certain level of navigation, just type a
dirname/filename where / is a dirseparator. If the dir or multiple dirs
do not exist ask: Directory foo/bar does not exist. Create? Having to
navigate is one thing, but having to create a directories by (e.g. 2
levels foo/bar/file)
0. Navigate to starting point
1. Selecting new folder
2. Selecting that new folder
3. Typing the new name foo
4. Navigating into that new folder
5. Selecting new folder
6. Selecting that new folder bar
7. Typing the new name
8. Navigating into that new folder
9. Typing the filename file and hit return
is 'a' step backward from
0. Navigate to starting point
1. Typing foo/bar/file and hit return
2. Pressing return to accept creation of the subdirectories
G
PS. Open TextEdit.app, new file, type something, save file. Try to use
a name with either ':' or '/'. Both turn into '-' ;-). Again, qua
smartness and ease of use, this is one of the few areas where I think
we have gone back since OPENSTEP. I prefer having / as directory
separator over : because it is also the directory separator in URL's.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [OS X TeX] bibliography to bib
From: "Emilio Faro"
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:47:02 +0200
"Donal B. Day" wrote:
> Has any created a script/tool that can convert a list of bibitems into a
> bib file?
You pose a difficult question because the \bibitem entries in a .bbl file
are not properly marked for automatically extracting the information. The
only reliable .bbl --> .bib converter I know of is a human retyping the
entries.
Nevertheless, some amount of work may be saved if the entries in your .bbl
file have some degree of uniformity, such as all being articles, or
books..., or have been typed following a uniform scheme (something =
unlikely
if they have been obtained from many different sources by cutting and
pasting...). Sometimes it is possible to manually do a minimum of markup =
so
that the information we want may be extracted by a database program.
Then it would be a piece of cake to put the information in BibTeX format.
Emilio Faro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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