Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:00:01 -0400
Subject: MacOSX-TeX Digest #113 - 10/01/01
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MacOSX-TeX Digest #113 - Monday, October 1, 2001
Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How fast is TeX on Mac OS X 10.1?
by "David Wagner"
Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "John Vokey"
[Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Andrew J. Miller"
[Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Dave McCollum"
Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "William Adams"
Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Nicholas Riley"
Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Arun Mangalam"
Re: [Mac OS X TeX] request: autorefresh
by "V. Vatsal"
Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Alan Curtis"
[Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
by "Andrew J. Miller"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] How fast is TeX on Mac OS X 10.1?
From: "David Wagner"
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:00:07 -0500
One thing that I have learned about the speed of TeX processing on Mac OS =
X
is that processing is slowed down a lot by the cpu time devoted to
displaying messages on the screen. If you run tex in Terminal, for =
example,
the elapsed time from start to finish depends strongly on the size of the
Terminal.
I am working on a 43 page paper in amsart.cls. The cputime actually
consumed by tex to run latex on this file is a little less than 2 seconds =
on
my 400 MHz Pismo laptop. If I run this in a big Terminal then the elapsed
time is about 5.46 seconds. If I run it in a very small Terminal the
elapsed time is about 3.3 seconds.
This is with my Terminal set with a green, partially transparent =
background,
which could increase the time consumed by Terminal.
I am still using Mac OS X 10.04.
David Wagner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "John Vokey"
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:15:48 -0600
All,
I know this is off-topic, but as scientists on the Mac are major uses of
both TeX and Matlab, and the issue was raised on this list, I thought it =
was
still appropriate.
As I do routinely since The Mathworks stopped developing Matlab for the
mac, I wrote once again to The Mathworks to seek re-development, =
especially
for Mac OS X 10.1. My comments included the suggestion made here (i.e., =
on
this list) that re-development should much easier for OS X because it is
essentially 'nix at its core. I thought I'd share the response I =
received:
> This is in response to Case ID: 688201
>
> Dear Dr. John Vokey:
>
> MATLAB is not supported under Mac OS X.
>
> As we do with all unsupported platforms, we will continually monitor the
> marketplace to see whether we should consider support for OS X. At the
> current time we do not have any plans or timeframe for supporting OS X.
>
> While we are aware of the similarities and differences between OS X and
> other Unix-based systems that we currently support (including issues
> related to POSIX compliance, window managers, OpenGL support, number
> crunching ability, etc), making a decision to support MATLAB on =
additional
> platforms involves analyzing trends in industrial and educational =
sectors
> to ensure that our resources are allocated in the best way possible for =
the
> entire MATLAB community.
> Sincerely,
> Natasha Niedzwiecki
> Product and Pricing Team
--
Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
John R. Vokey, Ph.D.
Professor
Department of Psychology and Neuroscience
University of Lethbridge
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Andrew J. Miller"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:34:48 -0400
Unfortunately that's their standard response. If you go to their web
site http://www.mathworks.com and search for Mac OS X, you'll get the
same response word for word. That response has been up there since at
least the middle of June and maybe longer. Your receiving the same
response says to me is that Mathworks does not really seem to be
interested in making an OS X version of matlab.
>All,
> I know this is off-topic, but as scientists on the Mac are major uses =
of
>both TeX and Matlab, and the issue was raised on this list, I thought it =
was
>still appropriate.
> As I do routinely since The Mathworks stopped developing Matlab for =
the
>mac, I wrote once again to The Mathworks to seek re-development, =
especially
>for Mac OS X 10.1. My comments included the suggestion made here (i.e., =
on
>this list) that re-development should much easier for OS X because it is
>essentially 'nix at its core. I thought I'd share the response I =
received:
>
>> This is in response to Case ID: 688201
>>
>> Dear Dr. John Vokey:
>>
>> MATLAB is not supported under Mac OS X.
>>
>> As we do with all unsupported platforms, we will continually monitor =
the
>> marketplace to see whether we should consider support for OS X. At the
>> current time we do not have any plans or timeframe for supporting OS =
X.
>>
>> While we are aware of the similarities and differences between OS X =
and
>> other Unix-based systems that we currently support (including issues
>> related to POSIX compliance, window managers, OpenGL support, number
>> crunching ability, etc), making a decision to support MATLAB on =
additional
>> platforms involves analyzing trends in industrial and educational =
sectors
>> to ensure that our resources are allocated in the best way possible =
for the
>> entire MATLAB community.
>> Sincerely,
>> Natasha Niedzwiecki
> > Product and Pricing Team
>
--
-Andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Dave McCollum"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:44:16 -0600
John,
Thanks for the MatLab update.
I can add some info to this... our Apple Higher Ed rep on campus has
told me that The Mathworks has lost the main core of "original"
developers (Mac and Windows) over the past few years. Consequently,
they are adding features to
MatLab via ActiveX components and other "add on" techniques, in
effect patching on new features. So, the code base is getting really
messy. From all accounts, MatLab is due for a major overhaul, which
The Mathworks is hesitating to do. So, to create a Mac OS X version,
either Carbon or full Cocoa, would not be trivial, due to recent
changes to the MatLab codebase, as well as the lack of people with
intimate knowledge of the codebase, especially on the Mac side.
Since MatLab is a major/popular scientific/engineering app for the
Mac OS, Apple tried to encourage The Mathworks to make a new Mac OS
port (for OS 9 or OS X only, or both). This encouragement included
substantial financial incentives and offers of "manpower." So far,
The Mathworks has not expressed any interest in the offers....
Oh well, I guess that the MatLab users among us will have to use it
in OS 9 or Classic. Classic performance of MatLab 5.2.1 is 90% or
better, except for graphics support.
-Dave
>All,
> I know this is off-topic, but as scientists on the Mac are major uses =
of
>both TeX and Matlab, and the issue was raised on this list, I thought it =
was
>still appropriate.
> As I do routinely since The Mathworks stopped developing Matlab for =
the
>mac, I wrote once again to The Mathworks to seek re-development, =
especially
>for Mac OS X 10.1. My comments included the suggestion made here (i.e., =
on
>this list) that re-development should much easier for OS X because it is
>essentially 'nix at its core. I thought I'd share the response I =
received:
>
>> This is in response to Case ID: 688201
>>
>> Dear Dr. John Vokey:
>>
>> MATLAB is not supported under Mac OS X.
>>
>> As we do with all unsupported platforms, we will continually monitor =
the
>> marketplace to see whether we should consider support for OS X. At the
>> current time we do not have any plans or timeframe for supporting OS =
X.
>>
>> While we are aware of the similarities and differences between OS X =
and
>> other Unix-based systems that we currently support (including issues
>> related to POSIX compliance, window managers, OpenGL support, number
>> crunching ability, etc), making a decision to support MATLAB on =
additional
>> platforms involves analyzing trends in industrial and educational =
sectors
>> to ensure that our resources are allocated in the best way possible =
for the
>> entire MATLAB community.
>> Sincerely,
>> Natasha Niedzwiecki
>> Product and Pricing Team
>
>--
>Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
>
>John R. Vokey, Ph.D.
>Professor
>Department of Psychology and Neuroscience
>University of Lethbridge
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
>"unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
>For additional HELP, send email to with
>"help" (no quotes) in the body.
>This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
>messages posted by third parties.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "William Adams"
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 14:32:06 -0400
FWIW, there are a couple of projects to clone MatLab, or to produce
alternatives---gnatlab on www.sourceforge.net seems the furthest along /
most active from a cursory glance.
William
--
William Adams, publishing specialist
ATLIS Graphics & Design / 717-731-6707 voice / 717-731-6708 fax
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
http://www.atlis.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Nicholas Riley"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 13:56:06 -0500
On Mon, Oct 01, 2001 at 02:32:06PM -0400, William Adams wrote:
> FWIW, there are a couple of projects to clone MatLab, or to produce
> alternatives---gnatlab on www.sourceforge.net seems the furthest along /
> most active from a cursory glance.
There is also GNU Octave:
which seems to be a reasonably mature MATLAB clone, and runs on OS X.
--
=3DNicholas Riley | =
Pablo Research Group, Department of Computer Science and
Medical Scholars Program, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Arun Mangalam"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:34:16 -0400
Wow! That's pretty insightful information on the Mathworks situation. i
guess I won't wait anymore.
However, there are two open-source alternatives that apparently compile
on the Mac: Octave and SciLab. Here's a URL to the MacOSX compilations:
http://homepage.mac.com/persquare/
I think SciLab even has a new MultiFractal and Wavelet toolbox added.
Anyway, both Octave and SciLab read in MatLab files, I believe. I think
it would be nice if more people started to use one the packages, and
start to contribute in a beautiful open-source native OSX scientific
package. I guess those are my dreams .. :)
Otherwise, there is, of course, OSX native Mathematica for
symbolic/signal processing capabilities, and LabVIEW should be releasing
an OSX version in the near future as they are in the internal beta test
stage [they have a PID toolbox].
I just find that mathworks loses millions to these other companies.
- Arun
On Monday, October 1, 2001, at 02:44 PM, Dave McCollum wrote:
> John,
>
> Thanks for the MatLab update.
>
> I can add some info to this... our Apple Higher Ed rep on campus has
> told me that The Mathworks has lost the main core of "original"
> developers (Mac and Windows) over the past few years. Consequently,
> they are adding features to
> MatLab via ActiveX components and other "add on" techniques, in effect
> patching on new features. So, the code base is getting really messy.
> From all accounts, MatLab is due for a major overhaul, which The
> Mathworks is hesitating to do. So, to create a Mac OS X version, either
> Carbon or full Cocoa, would not be trivial, due to recent changes to
> the MatLab codebase, as well as the lack of people with intimate
> knowledge of the codebase, especially on the Mac side.
>
> Since MatLab is a major/popular scientific/engineering app for the Mac
> OS, Apple tried to encourage The Mathworks to make a new Mac OS port
> (for OS 9 or OS X only, or both). This encouragement included
> substantial financial incentives and offers of "manpower." So far, The
> Mathworks has not expressed any interest in the offers....
>
> Oh well, I guess that the MatLab users among us will have to use it in
> OS 9 or Classic. Classic performance of MatLab 5.2.1 is 90% or better,
> except for graphics support.
>
>
>
> -Dave
>
>
>> All,
>> I know this is off-topic, but as scientists on the Mac are major
>> uses of
>> both TeX and Matlab, and the issue was raised on this list, I thought
>> it was
>> still appropriate.
>> As I do routinely since The Mathworks stopped developing Matlab for
>> the
>> mac, I wrote once again to The Mathworks to seek re-development,
>> especially
>> for Mac OS X 10.1. My comments included the suggestion made here
>> (i.e., on
>> this list) that re-development should much easier for OS X because it
>> is
>> essentially 'nix at its core. I thought I'd share the response I
>> received:
>>
>>> This is in response to Case ID: 688201
>>>
>>> Dear Dr. John Vokey:
>>>
>>> MATLAB is not supported under Mac OS X.
>>>
>>> As we do with all unsupported platforms, we will continually monitor
>>> the
>>> marketplace to see whether we should consider support for OS X. At
>>> the
>>> current time we do not have any plans or timeframe for supporting OS
>>> X.
>>>
>>> While we are aware of the similarities and differences between OS X
>>> and
>>> other Unix-based systems that we currently support (including issues
>>> related to POSIX compliance, window managers, OpenGL support, number
>>> crunching ability, etc), making a decision to support MATLAB on
>>> additional
>>> platforms involves analyzing trends in industrial and educational
>>> sectors
>>> to ensure that our resources are allocated in the best way possible
>>> for the
>>> entire MATLAB community.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Natasha Niedzwiecki
>>> Product and Pricing Team
>>
>> --
>> Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
>>
>> John R. Vokey, Ph.D.
>> Professor
>> Department of Psychology and Neuroscience
>> University of Lethbridge
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
>> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
>> For additional HELP, send email to with
>> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
>> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
>> messages posted by third parties.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [Mac OS X TeX] request: autorefresh
From: "V. Vatsal"
Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:24:36 -0700
Philippe,
Is this script available some place? I'd like to try it.
Thanks.
--On Wednesday, September 19, 2001 5:20 PM +0200 Philippe Lel=E9dy=20
wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2001, Paulo Abreu wrote:
>
>> The feature I miss most while working with TeX under MacOSX is a ps/pdf
>> previewer with autorefresh -- that is, with the feature to reload and
>
>> moves to the saved position. Is it possible to write a script that does
>> this?
>>
>> Paulo
>>
>
> I wrote a simple script, after reading xdvi sources: to have autorefresh
> feature, scan every second the timestamp of the file, and if it has
> changed, issue
> open -a
>
> preview.app isn't clever enough for remenbering scale factor, but TeXShop
> is.
>
> Salutations.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
> "unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
> For additional HELP, send email to with
> "help" (no quotes) in the body.
> This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
> messages posted by third parties.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
Vinayak Vatsal
Department of Mathematics
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, Canada V6T 1Z2
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Alan Curtis"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 17:30:14 -0400
I too have got that message from Mathworks about MATLAB and OS X. I
was informing them of a problem I found running MATLAB in Classic
mode under OS X. When I have another Classic mode program with a
window open, closing a MATLAB window causes MATLAB to force quit
(loosing all data and command history). This is such a serious
limitation I have degraded everything I do to OS 9.
Anyone else have a similar experience?
I shall be checking out those clones.
Alan
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [Mac OS X TeX] Re: [0ff-topic] Matlab and Mac OS X
From: "Andrew J. Miller"
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:27:42 -0400
Alan,
I noticed the same thing, but since I updated classic to 9.2.1, this
behavior appears to have gone away.
>I too have got that message from Mathworks about MATLAB and OS X. I
>was informing them of a problem I found running MATLAB in Classic
>mode under OS X. When I have another Classic mode program with a
>window open, closing a MATLAB window causes MATLAB to force quit
>(loosing all data and command history). This is such a serious
>limitation I have degraded everything I do to OS 9.
>
>Anyone else have a similar experience?
>
>I shall be checking out those clones.
>
>
>Alan
>
>
>--
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
>"unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
>For additional HELP, send email to with
>"help" (no quotes) in the body.
>This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
>messages posted by third parties.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
--
-Andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of MacOSX-TeX Digest
-----------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send email to with
"unsubscribe macosx-tex" (no quotes) in the body.
For additional HELP, send email to with
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This list is not moderated, and I am not responsible for
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-----------------------------------------------------------------